Here at Wandsworth, we have only in the last six months been installing smoke detectors for our WATCH Lifeline clients as a standard package. We also have a backlog of clients who don’t currently have linked smoke detectors who we are contacting and offering a linked smoke detector. I know many other service providers do this and some have been doing this for quite a while. My question to the services that are installing smoke detectors as part of their package, is who is installing the smoke detector? Contractors, handyman services, response teams? And how generally are the smoke detectors being attached, drilled and screwed into place or glued? Thanks.
8 comments
Dino Peters
At Red Alert we provide this service to various clients throughout the country. We have two main approaches based on the needs of our clients. The first method is the physical fixing of the smoke detectors (drilling, plugging and screwing), this gives a solid fixing, however you have to ensure the installers are aware of any potential hazards (and carry out a documented risk assessment) such as electrical cables, asbestos etc. Our second method is fixing the smoke detectors via industrial adhesive. This provides an excellent bond and also means that you avoiding drilling with the associated risks. Given that smoke detectors save lives, a strong bond between the smoke detector and the surface that it is being affixed to is not just desirable, but essential. It is for this reason why we avoid Velcro and adhesive tape, unless there really is no alternative. Happy to discuss/help or meet at the TSA next week; James Batchelor, Operations Manager, Red Alert Telecare 01233 500498.
Sue Hodges
Whilst the topic is on Smoke detectors, I am interested if anyone has been contacted by their Housing Compliance Surveyor.
At East Devon we have a number of sheltered properties which are hard wired but also an increasing number now on dispersed. We are installing Unit, smoke, heat and carbon in all sheltered/supported housing. Under the Building Regulations Part B and BS5839-6:2013 – Fire Detection and Fire Alarms Systems for Buildings, all Smoke and Heat Detectors should have 2 sources of power. One hard wired to the mains power in the property and one battery backup supply (lithium 10 years). Devon & Somerset Fire & Rescue are asking how we are complying with current regulations.
In additional the detectors being installed are battery operated (no mains electric supply) this equates to a Grade F installation; this type of installation may contravene the requirements of both Building Regulations and British Standards and we should be installing a Grade D System (Mains powered smoke and heat alarms) with a category LD2 (Hall, Landing, Kitchen and Lounge) as a minimum. Some Authorities are apparently moving towards an LD1 for sheltered housing, which is an alarm in each room and cupboards.
I would be interested if you have had similar discussions with your Compliance teams and what action you are taking.
Robin Ollett
Thank you all for your comments. I’m sure more will be forthcoming.
My experience of using sticky pads is very varied whether they are supplied with the sensor or using double sided Velcro. Ceilings with any kind of texture which is not smooth i.e. artex etc I have found the sticky pads do not stick very well. Also, elderly clients invariably have very warm properties which means the glue within the pads or Velcro soon looses its stickiness. No Nails where necessary is better but still damages ceilings in the same way as drilling when it comes to taking down sensors when they need replacement.
Mark Baker
Just a quick response to David Cross’s comment. In our experience in Elmbridge the supplied adhesive pads don’t last very long and will result in a return to the property within a few months to replace the device on the ceiling. Once the central heating comes on (or in some cases it never goes off) the pads dry out very quickly and can no longer support the weight of the detector. They are also particularly poor on greasy/dirty ceilings.
Like Karen at Westminster we use the heavy duty Velcro 50mm width, I wouldn’t say it removes the problem of alarms falling down, but with this product the occurrences are minimal compared to the provided pads. Again like Karen, the lack of knowledge about materials used in construction, means we aren’t going to start drilling into ceilings, so sticking them with Velcro is the best alternative.
When our local Fire Service install alarms (theirs or occasionally ours) they use glue, not screws as they refuse to take the working at heights training their H&S insist on……….. 🙂 We find the glue they use suffers from the same problems as the weaker adhesive pads and it fails on dirty surfaces or in over hot environments.
David Cross
Most are supplied with strong double sided adhesive pads. This mitigates the need to drill ceilings, avoids ‘untrained’ installers needing to use power tools, minimises claims for damages to people’s private properties’ as a result of drilling ceilings, damage to pipes, cables, or risks of disturbing any potential asbestos in older materials (as mentioned above).
The local F&RS use such pads when fitting smoke and hear detectors to people’s properties as part of their community fire prevention programmes.
Dave Jewer
Hi, in West Sussex we also have an arrangement with West Sussex Fire & Rescue Service. Our installers ask the client if they would agree to a referral to WSF&R who will then contact the client, carry out a home fire safety visit and install a linked smoke detector provided by WSF&R at no cost to the client. We have been doing this for about 15 years now, it works well and the fire service have great faith in the technology and have seen a reduction in the number of call outs.
West Sussex is a predominantly rural area and as such travel times to an incident for emergency services can be similar to, or greater than those in London.
At Chichester we have an agreed protocol with WSF&R on how we handle calls from smoke detectors (linked or non-linked) and linked fire panels. We talk to the client over the alarm system to establish the likelihood of it being an accidental call and then call WSF&R if the smoke detector sounds for more than 30 seconds or comes in almost immediately after cancelling the initial call down. We advise the client to vacate the property or offer fire safety advice if they are unable to leave.
We call WSF&R immediately if we receive a call from a linked fire panel (sheltered schemes and the like) due to the likely impact of a fire in a multiple occupancy scenario.
Karen Bradshaw
Hi, in Westminster we install through the in-house telecare install team who are also the responders. We stick them up with industrial velcro (double sided) as drillng or screws would require us to have asbestos checks and this is not always available. Sometimes the paint or wallpaper is very greasy and the stick is not great in which case we use no nails.
Also we place them as high up as possible but sometimes ceilings are extremely high and this is not viable.
Happy to talk further. Karen
Collin Chan-Pensley
Epping Forest Careline currently have an arrangement with Essex Fire Services Home Safety Unit who carry out a home fire safety visit and install the smoke detectors which have been pre-programmed and left at the premises when the alarm is installed.
They are drilled and screwed into place.
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